Saturday, November 18, 2006

Hiya,
Nothing much to say. I wanted to take a brief moment to ask everyone a question:

Is the devil a man,spirit, or action?

Lanna

32 comments:

Kingdom Advancer said...

Lanna, who said I never visit your blog? I actually found your sister's blog from your blog. I just have never commented on yours...until now.

The devil is a spirit--he's the most powerful fallen angel, remember. (Lucifer)

The Antichrist will be a man indwelled by Satan.

Many actions are "devilish."

Austin said...

The devil is a spirit, I believe.

Kingdom Advancer,

It's a minor detail, but "lucifer" has nothing to do with satan. It's a mistranslation in the kjv. I think the actual meaning of the word has something to do with light. Go and read that Scripture and you'll see that the verse is not talking about the devil at all - it's talking about the king of Babylon.

The fallen angel part may be true, but Jesus also said that he was a liar from the beginning.

Austin said...

um...my last sentence is ambiguous. I was saying that Jesus said satan (literally: adversary) was a liar from the beginning. It almost looks like I said that Jesus said that about himself.

Lanna said...

Does that mean this spirit can decide to do things?
Can "the devil" put himself into you and/or make you do things? OR is he just a feeling?

Lanna

Austin said...

He can make decisions. I don't think he can "possess" a Christian, but he can influence us, mainly by telling us lies. That's his main line of work - lying to humans.

What do you think?

Kingdom Advancer said...

First of all, I don't think we are led to believe in the Bible that the devil himself is omnipresent. So, demons probably do much of his bidding.

Then, I think you have to recognize the difference between possession and influence. Possession is controlling, influence is more suggesting.

If you are a Christian and have the Holy Spirit, and the devil (or a demon, more likely) tries to possess you, where exactly is it going to reside? I don't think the Holy Spirit likes or allows enemies for roommates.
However, some Christians backslide and pull away from God, pretty much kicking out the Holy Spirit and opening the door for other influences.

Kingdom Advancer said...

Austin,

I did a word study, and you do seem to be correct. You are also correct though that it is a minor detail because it seems clear that the devil is a fallen angel. The name Lucifer has simply been connected with him.
I'm just speculating, but one of the reasons for this is probably because "Satan" and "devil" have such negative connotations that a name was needed to describe him before he fell.

Lanna said...

How would he be an influence if there is no one there to influence you? Does this make him a being? Or does this make him something someone can give to you, such as a temptation.

Austin said...

Lanna,

It makes him a being, or so I think.

Kingdom Advancer,

Before he fell? But he was a liar from the beginning.

Also, using Lucifer as a name is a problem though, because it causes people to believe that that Scripure is about the devil. If they think that, then they'll read it and get a wrong idea of who the devil is. That Scripture is talking about the king of Babylon, not the devil.

Job is helpful for understanding the adverary's (satan's) purpose.

Austin said...

Lanna,

It isn't perfectly clear, but Job seems to imply that the devil may be an angel.

Austin said...

"Angel" (from "angelos") actually means "messenger".

Lanna said...

yes, and a messanger can be anyone. So the devil can be someone who comes and gives you a message, or whatever?

Lanna

Lanna said...

I e-mailed you my age, by the way. I know you are on here right now, cause I just asked you that question, and you quickly replied.

Lanna

Austin said...

Yep, I'm still here.

Austin said...

"Angelos" could refer to a human messenger (like the messengers of the churches in Revelation, usually translated "angels of the churches"), or to a messenger of Satan (Paul's "thorn in the flesh"), or one of God's messengers (angels). The word for messenger (angelos) almost always means angel. From what I gather, angels are spirit, but they can appear to humans in the physical world if necessary, as in certain Bible passages.

Lanna said...

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear.

Daisy said...

Sorry I took so long to come on again and I don't have much time to even answer YOUR question here so here goes.

I believe that the Devil is Spirit.

Like God would talk about the "Dark Spirits."

gota go.
Hmmm maybe I'll have time for another one.
Daisy

Austin said...

"Then the angel Raphael took the devil, and bound him in the desert of upper Egypt."
-Tobit 8:3

This is not in our canon, but it shows us something that many Jews believed in and before Jesus' time. It appears that the Jews believed that the devil could be bound to a specific place (by an angel). Do you think they might be right?

Austin said...

Wait, nevermind. That verse wasn't about satan. It was about a devil (demon). The angel was protecting Tobias from the devil that had killed his new wife's previous seven husbands.

How many people do you know who would marry a woman who had had seven husbands already killed by the same devil? That's brave.

Lanna said...

Not many.
I would consuder that to be VERY brave!

Lanna

Austin said...

I've got another verse worth looking into:

"As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him."
-John 13:27 (NIV)

I wonder what that means exactly. How did satan "enter" him, and what was satan able to control in him?

Lanna said...

Maybe it ment he had an erge or a temtation? I 'll have look again.

Lanna

Austin said...

Wait a minute - you don't think that the devil actually entered him?

Okay, I gotsa question: What do you think the devil actually is? What, in your opinion, is the best way to describe him?

Lanna said...

Me?

I'm saying he is a spirit and not something that can be drove into you, no. I don't agree with daisy.
Explain, huh. Well, I would if it wasn't 8:04 (the end of my computer time.)

I come up with something for your hard question.

I got a Q for you!

How would you describe the devil?????

Lanna

Austin said...

He's a spirit. He can think and act just like angels, and he may be a fallen angel himself. He can enter people, but mostly he deceives people. There you go, that's my opinion.

You seem to think that "spirit" refers to something that isn't real. Just because something isn't physical doesn't mean it is figurative. Are you suggesting that the devil is simply a personification of evil or temptation? That's rather unorthodox, since the Bible describes him as a person of some sort.

Daisy said...

I agree with austin. He said it all.
If he was a man, we would see, hear, and feal his presants. (Well, sometimes we can feal his presants.)

Satan is abviously a fallen angel. Didn't he fall way back when before this earth was created? Yup. Angels are spirits. When we die, we leave our body, but we take our spirits wherever we go when we die.
I always like to immagine it as being in a car. You are inside of the car...just like your spirit is inside of your body. All though we can't see it, it's there, and we can not see spirits, anyway, so of course we can't see our spirits... Because we are looking though the eyes of our bodys'.

Lanna, ask your mom about cycaligests...ask her what they are, what they do, and what they can see when they look into your eyes. I don't know. Maybe your mom believes that cycaligests are for fake. In the new testament, you can read all over where devils and demonds have entered into men and women alike.
Remember the story of when Jesus and his deciples came across the sea and there was a demon possesed man there, and the demons where afraid and asked if the could go into the hurd of swine. And Jesus said "Go."? The Bible says that the devils where inside of him.

Oh by the way, have you heard of the song "Set me free" by Casting Crowns? That ones a good one, and it goes along with this story I just brought up. I love that one.

Lanna said...

NO.NO.NO.NO. NO!


It is not another word for sin or temptation or whatever.
I see what you are saying. What I'm saying is very close to the same.

First, describe your idea of "fallen angel" just because sometimes people have different ideas for one word.
What's an "angel" to you?

To me, and angel is someone who says or does something that helps someone else. (a message from God)
Like, say, once, several years ago, my dad was out of work and we had no money. We prayed and prayed and prayed and.......
Then God sent my dad's good friend Cliff to come offer him a job.
Cliff needed someone on his construction team badly. He was an angel, that God sent, to help us.

Austin said...

Are there no other angels besides humans? What is the devil to you? You haven't been very clear about that.

Lanna, I don't know if he's an angel or something else. What I want to know is, do you consider him to be an actual being of some kind? Or are you saying he's not?

Also, angel, in the Bible, usually does not mean human. It means a messenger of God. There are beings - we call them angels - who are created specifically for this purpose. They are not humans.

Although, some Scriptures indicate that each person has their own personal angel or angels.

"See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven."
-Matthew 18:10 (NASB)

You don't really think angels are always just people, do you?

"Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"
-Matthew 26:53 (NASB)

Do you think that Jesus was talking about humans? Note that Jesus often called angels "angels in heaven", and he also said that no one has ascended to heaven except the one who came from heaven (himself), so doesn't that mean that angels are not people?

Lanna said...

No, I don't think that angels are just people. Did I not say that they are messengers? If not, please, excuse my mistake. I thought I did.
Devil, huh?

Well, As you said here: "He can make decisions. I don't think he can "possess" a Christian, but he can influence us, mainly by telling us lies. That's his main line of work - lying to humans."

This sounds like an angel, human, messenger, whatever.
But, how can we know for sure? The Bible uses so many parables, it could surely call anything a he/she.
It may not be a living thing, but it could be called one. Right?

But, then again, what part does the devil play in our lives? We make our own choices, not a "devil."

The question, if that is true, is does he then influence us, or drive us?

You, my good sir, have not made YOURSELF clear. For fact, I'm am confused. Why am I asked, when you have not answered your own question, that I asked first in the first place?

Lanna

Lanna said...

(I like to torment guys with questions. It's a hobby.)

Austin said...

Okay, okay.

First off, the Bible refers to the devil in a personal way every time it mentions him, which is many, many times. He can speak and deceive. He is described in this way throughout the Bible many times. There you go.

You are right that he does not make our decisions. The devil did not make me do it. The devil told Eve to eat the apple (I mean fruit - why do we always assume it was an apple? Hmm...), but he didn't force her - she made her own choice. You're right that he doesn't control, he simply convinces. But he does exist as more than just a personified something-or-other. Whatever he is, he has a real mind and makes real decisions. That's pretty much all we know from the Bible, unless someone else can show us a verse where it tells us he's an angel.

Lanna said...

Nice words...(I guess.)

You right though, how do we know (I guess I said that already, huh.)
I know that the devil can't make you do anything. How could he. Besides, we have free will, remember?
God gave us choices because he loves us.
Say you had a child and you loved this child soooooo very much. BUT, you make all the child's choices for him and never let him do it for himself. Is that love? No. I do not believe it is.

Lanna

Lanna